Cummins R2.8…90 DAYS OF FUN
PLEASE NOTE: We have had conversion inquiries coming in for the R2.8 Cummins engines and rather than explaining to each and every person why we do not offer the R2.8 engines as a conversion option, we simply send them a link to this page.
When Cummins announced the R2.8 crate engine program at SEMA in 2016. These sounded like the ultimate setup. Among the many features promised, we were told that these brand new crate engines would carry an emissions compliance certificate, and legendary Cummins reliability. We were excited! The Cummins reps that we spoke to at the SEMA show were also touting a $5000-6000 purchase price which was really unbelievable. So, we quietly began researching anything we could find on the platform. We purchased a complete 2.8 ISF from overseas, flew overseas to speak with people with real-world experience with these engines, explored reliability numbers, and even completed a prototype conversion. Our findings were NOT good…
The R2.8 is entirely built and assembled in China. Starting in 2009, the 2.8 ISF engines were licensed and installed into Chinese Foton Tunland pickups. The 2.8 ISF has an absolutely TERRIBLE reputation overseas. Premature connecting rod failures, bad injectors, turbocharger failures, the list goes on and on. In fact, everyone we spoke with about the 2.8 had nothing but bad things to say about them. Next, we went at this from a parts perspective. We wanted to know once the Cummins warranty runs out, how difficult are parts to get for these things? Impossible in fact. We found that the ONLY vendors selling parts are Chinese vendors on Alibaba.com and they all wanted wire transfer payments and none of them spoke English. Since these engines are not sold here, nobody stocks parts. We asked Cummins directly if they would sell us parts and they don’t even find most of the parts for these engines in their system. So, on parts that was also a FAIL.
In late 2017, Cummins finally released the R2.8 Crate Engine Program. Sadly, Cummins had almost doubled their initial price estimate than what we were told at the SEMA show, the engines carry no emissions compliance certificates for vehicles newer than 1999, and incredibly only carries a 90 DAY WARRANTY! We were floored…With a purchase price just shy of $10,000 and a warranty that will run out before you get it installed, what is their target market? The R2.8 Crate Engine Program includes no provisions for transmission, no controllers for anything, no cooling system, nothing. For $10k all you’re getting is an engine with a piggy-back wire harness and accelerator pedal. That’s literally it. This means that putting that engine into ANYTHING other than a 20 year-old Jeep will require a ton of development, a standalone transmission controller, air conditioning system provisions, cooling system, air cleaner, intercooler system, mounting system, adapters for the transmission, the list goes on and on. Most modern (2005+) vehicles have computers for pretty much everything. Getting cruise control, air conditioning, ABS systems to all work with the R2.8 will require custom computer boxes with custom-code written in them. This means ULTRA EXPENSIVE…
Sadly, in our opinion the Cummins R2.8 Crate Engine Program is DOA. They are crazy expensive, will be an extraordinarily difficult installation as everything will need to be hand-built, and only carry a 90-day warranty. We have been in the diesel conversion business for almost 17 years so our experience is unmatched in the industry. From a professional conversion company’s perspective, the Cummins R2.8 conversions will LOOK like conversions and will not have the stock fit & finish we’re known for. Franken-swaps are not in our DNA and we don’t feel that is something paying customers want. We asked ourselves, “who on earth wants to pay to install a Chinese R2.8 engine into their Toyota when they can get a factory Toyota D-4D engine with legendary reliability and power for less money”? Our approach has always been minimalist as nothing can compare to the factory designed stuff and the more one deviates from this the more the conversion starts looking like a franken-swap and the reliability of the finished product goes way down.
Cummins 4B-T aka..”The Paint Shaker”
We regularly get emails from customers wanting more information about the 4B-T cummins (B3.9) engines. Unfortunately, we dont really have anywhere to send them for comprehensive, real-world, factual data. Most of the information online is from companies “selling” 4B-T conversions so what IS available is highly biased and factually inaccurate. So, we put together a little fact-checker list.
Top 10 Dumbest Engine Swaps
A few years back, JP Magazine did an article entitled ” Top 10 Dumbest Engine Swaps” and the little “paint shaker” 4B-T made the list. (FYI we did NOT write this)
Taken from JP Magazine article…
“But again, the noise, vibration, and fumes from one of these little paint shakers will be enough to push most Jeep owners over the edge of the nearest cliff. Plus, they weigh a little more than an all-iron big-block. They sound good on paper, but when you’ve lived with one of these conversions for a little while the buzzing and belching can really test the temperament of some drivers.”
Why is it called “the Paint Shaker”?
This is a name that we did not come up with, but has been around since the 4BT was introduced. The 4B-T engine was developed by Cummins for use in off-highway stationary generator sets and large heavy-duty delivery vans. They were considered large displacement 4 cylinders touting “1 liter per cylinder” displacement. This was a big deal back in the 1980’s when they were designed. Most passenger vehicle diesel engines are internally balanced which minimizes vibration and internal engine wear. The B3.9 4B-T Cummins engines are not internally balanced. Due to their large displacement and long stroke, and not having an internal balancing mechanism, the 4B-T shakes far more than your average engine. To combat this issue, a few aftermarket companies have tried to develop liquid-filled engine mount to absorb some of this extreme vibration. Again, the issue is that the engines were not internally balanced. To be thorough, Cummins did sell an add-on balance shaft module for the 4B-T. These add-on modules have several MAJOR drawbacks when used in a passenger vehicle application. First, they were designed to be operated at a constant RPM and are limited to 1,900 RPM’s. They were also expensive at +$2,000, and difficult to find (even from Cummins dealers). Lastly, they were extremely bulky (requiring the use of a giant oil pan assembly specially designed to fit the balance shaft module) which makes fitment in a passenger vehicle engine compartment literally impossible.
This is probably the most disingenuous aspect of the 4B-T engine swap. We see 4B-T swap companies touting all sorts of astronomical fuel economy numbers online. However, with fuel consumption data from Cummins’ own website and a calculator, one can easily see that these mpg numbers are wildly inflated and completely impractical. Most conversions dont get anywhere near 20MPG much less 30MPG. These 4BT swap companies do this to sell conversions…plain and simple. Don’t believe us? Ask them for a written guarantee on MPG…
We get emails from some folks wanting to argue about “our approach” to diesel converions and how much they love the 4B-T Cummins engines in their mom’s station wagon, Bronco, etc. Well, the fact is that “our approach” is not really “our” approach at all; it’s the OEM’s that made your vehicle. We ONLY install OEM powertrains found in these vehicles in other countries. So, whether you like or dislike our product really boils down to if you want a fully integrated, no compromises, daily driver that is designed and built by the same company that built your vehicle. Shoe-horning a bread truck engine into your vehicle (while technically possible) NEVER translates into the type of product a professional company wants to stand behind.
Cummins R2.8 & 4BT March 1st, 2021dieseltoys
|12-02-2018, 12:24 PM|
Join Date: Nov 2016
Who has done the 4bt swap? Pros and cons? What is needed? Post pictures too
|12-02-2018, 01:42 PM|
Join Date: Jun 2017
Real Name: Andy ಠ_ಠ
Member's Picture Albums
looks super smooth, big black clouds of smoke?
|12-02-2018, 01:50 PM|
Join Date: Mar 2017
Real Name: Robert');DROP TABLE Students;
Came here to post this. I wish that dude had a build thread somewhere.
|12-02-2018, 02:43 PM|
Join Date: Mar 2011
did some checks on this but the 4bt seems way too heavy ( without additional suspension and frame mods).. The new 2.7 is what I may eventually look at when my daily driver gets replaced and the 5VZ cant be replaced ( may be a while).
|12-02-2018, 04:34 PM|
Join Date: May 2011
Location: OBX, NC and Obamaville
Looks like he really had to beef up the frame to hold the 4bt. Looks like it was rebuilt, which couldn’t have been cheap.
|12-02-2018, 05:10 PM|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: High Park Colorado
Real Name: Levi
I have a 4bt in a Sky Track ( big all terrain fork lift ) and had one in a older lift and it's a good engine for that purpose but I wouldn't want one in my 4Runner . Loud ,smoky , shaky , slow and hard to start in the cold . I would however, love a Landcruiser with a Toyota diesel in it .
|12-02-2018, 05:18 PM|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: High Park Colorado
Real Name: Levi
And O yeah , Cumming parts are expensive . They are durable though .
|12-03-2018, 01:59 AM|
Join Date: Sep 2017
I've read a lot bad things about that 2.8 Repower engine, here's an article that popped in my newsfeed a few weeks ago.
|12-03-2018, 09:11 PM|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Delft, Netherlands
Real Name: Jordan
Diesel Toys loves to bash any conversion that isnt OEM Toyota; just look at the crap they spewed about TDI conversions.
Its also ironic that they are belittling Cummins for only being emissions compliant up to MY 1999, when NOTHING that Diesel Toys is technically legal. Lusting after a nice D4D? Too bad, not legal. How about an amazing 1HDFTE? Sorry, not legal!
Ive heard mixed reviews about the original 2.8, but was told much was changed for the US market. Only time will tell with converted vehicles whether or not this is the case. There are few vehicles Id rather have than a cleanly converted 1999 Highlander with an R2.8.
|12-03-2018, 10:15 PM|
Join Date: Apr 2018
4bt is a terrible swap. It is huge, and really heavy. It is loud and dirty, and very under powered.
|12-04-2018, 12:06 PM|
Under powered is a relative term. Any performance tweaks that work for its big brother (5.9) will work for the 4BT as long as you get an engine with an inline injector pump. Advancing the fuel rack 4mm will give it over 200hp at the wheels.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|Rate This Thread|
Pre 1985 toyota SFA diesel Swaps
Being a mechanic myself I was skeptical about the idea of putting this engine in my 4runner. After much research however, I have found it to be a very practical offroading solution. Yes it is 180 lbs heavier then the 22re but coupled to a toyota 5 speed, it will produce 30+ MPG's with loads more torque. Also the options for modifying the engine to produce HP and torque are endless. Being that it is a freer revving diesel too, it will not be such a tractor as some diesels are. It is also one of the worlds most reliable engines too. So really, I believe for an overlanding vehicle, it is a most excellent choice to make. With 4x4labs making a conversion kit already it is even more possible.
Click to expand...
The torque numbers for the turbocharged merc engine is 180ft lbs. A 22re puts out 142 ft lbs. That amount might register on the butt dyno if the weight was the same, but adding on 200 lbs and I really think you're going backwards. Thats especially since the hp numbers are almost identical. More importantly, once peak torque is reached, thats it. These things just die on the top end.
As far as mpg, the sedans get anywhere between 24-28 mpgs with mixed driving. Thats with a 4 speed tranny and 3.07 gears. You aren't going to be getting anywhere near 30 with 4.10's even with a 5th gear.
As I said before, if massively better fuel economy or massively more performance could be had then a swap makes sense. But thats not what you have here. Its no guarantee that you will get any better mileage and the extra power will likely be eaten up by the nearly 200 lbs of extra weight. Dont get me wrong, I really like these engines. I owned 2. They are fantastic for what they were designed for. But when you take a low revving diesel made for a crusing sedan and put it into a 4wheeler you are asking it to work in an environment that it wasn't designed for.
And most importantly, the cost of replacement parts will kill you.
Toyota diesel swap or 4BT?
1. The 4bt probably isn't right for you if you don't want a lift. Either way, you're looking at a lot more than you budgeted for the conversion because of the price of bellhousing adapters, drivelines, etc...
2. The Cummins B3.3 is a great engine for small equipment, even an FJ40, but I don't think it's good in a 60 series due to the weight. If you look at the RPM range, you'll notice that you don't have much to work with - which means you will need lots of gears to make it happen.
3. The Toyota 3B can be purchased for under 3k with transmission and can be swapped into a clean rust-free FJ60 with good results. It's very quiet and builds okay power.
4. Consider something bigger, like the 2H or even a GM 6.2/6.5 Turbo diesel. They are larger, but the MPG difference is minimal, people are realistically getting around 22mpg's with that engine. It works well with a mild lift, but can be done with no lift at all. Parts are cheap, and easy to find, and you can get it installed with no driveline mods.
I personally prefer the 12HT in a 60, because it builds usable power and gets great mileage. They are expensive engines, but other mods for install are minimal (like adapters, mounts, etc).
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth
Swap toyota 4bt
Cummins R2.8 Toyota R151F
Attention Toyota owners, the diesel conversion solution for your pickup is here, build a Cummins R2.8 Toyota R151F truck to make the ultimate pavement pounder or off road rig.
Power Wagon owners can also rejoice as this allows a narrow 5 speed overdrive to fit under the cab with a passenger side transfer case. This R2.8 adapter kit opens up a lot of diesel conversion possibilities due to the lack of strong, easy to obtain 5 speed transmissions swaps for this diesel engine platform.
Whats included in the Cummins R2.8 Toyota R151F kit:
- Bell housing
- Clutch fork
- Pivot ball,
- Clutch disk
- Throw out bearing
- Modified flywheel
Installation is easy, it works with a local parts store pressure plate, part number SC1890. The clutch disc is included; the same disc used on the Chevy V8 Toyota conversion. It’s a 21 spline 1 1/8 clutch measuring 10 1/2 in diameter. If you need to order a new one, order the part number QDB21CD. The external clutch slave cylinder is part number CS2326 or CS2324 and it is positioned on the drivers side of the R2.8 adapter kit.
The design of this R2.8 Toyota R151F bell housing is the adapter. It offers the installer a lot more flexibility for building vehicles with a passenger drop front axle; perfect for your Toyota, 4 Runner, Mini Truck, Dodge Power Wagon, most pre-1987 Jeeps, and even Scout. Made in the USA. All Quick Draw Brand parts carry a life time limited warranty against manufacturing defects. They are proven bulletproof; check out the video:
Each clip has slots for them. For short at the edges at the base for long ones at the top under the rings. They are inserted into the clamps when they are dressed and pierce the girl's nipples from both sides and into the breast, and when the chain is.
Pulled, they go deeper into the nipple when released, they come out of it.
- Allure horoscope 2021
- Creating 3d art
- Edmentum answers geometry
- Contemporary window curtains
- Ebay local pickup
- Male necromancer art
- Trailblazer suspension diagram
Instead of words, I took one foot in my hands with trepidation and began to knead. Lera watched me do it, but she looked not at the process, but at my face. Feeling her gaze on me, I raised mine. Our eyes met and I felt so embarrassed that I immediately lowered my head again, burning with shame.