Nightfall needs it's own section since there are several ways to play while using it. Nightfall is a 2h axe that can be crafted by blacksmiths who are exalted with the Thorium Brotherhood. The axe is BoE so you don't have to craft it yourself to use it. The reason Nightfall is often used by raid groups is the huge benefit they bring to the overall raid DPS as long as you have a decent amount of casters. It's even common for raid groups to use two or even three players with Nightfall in order to make sure the uptime of the buff is as high as possible. Nightfall also benefits Retribution Paladin DPS, especially the spellpower variants of Spelladin and Hybrid.
unfortunately, the usage of Nightfall will greatly reduce the damage output of any class using it because of it's mediocre stats and viability for classes to use a 2h weapon well in a raid setting. Because of this, Ret Paladins are often the chosen players to wield the Nightfall since they are the "only" primary 2h weapon user in a raid as well as being the players in the bottom tier of the damage meter, so the net DPS loss is minimal.
Nightfall is a pure support item and in using it you are throwing away your personal aspirations in order to benefit the raid group as a whole. Nightfall is a great item for casual players who wants to raid as Ret since you won't have to deal with the massive amounts of consumables or hassle to get world buffs since your DPS will be minimal anyway.
BASICS AND CORE ITEMS
There are two ways to play Nightfall Ret:
1. Spellpower Hybrid with SoR (Maximum Nightfall uptime)
The goal for this build is to get as high uptime of your Nightfall's buff on the target as possible. In order to do this we will be using SoR which can proc Chance on hit effects on weapons. This will essentially double our chance to apply the Nightfall buff.
In order to further maximize the potential uptime you will need to Seal twist SoTC with SoR to get the extra attackspeed, and if you really want to min max you could potentially do a triple seal twist in order to Judge JoC, this because JoC counts as a physical ability and will also be able to proc Nightfall.
The negatives with this build is that your personal DPS will be very low, but on the other hand it's the most beneficial for the raid as a whole.
2. Normal AP Ret with SoC (Maximum DPS)
The goal of this build is to use Nightfall and still retain as much of your personal DPS as possible. We will play just like a normal AP Ret would, using SoC. If you area comfortable with seal twisting it will be both a DPS and uptime increase and is highly recommended, just be sure you do it right or you will loose more then you gain.
The problem with AP Nightfall is that we need to get another 3% hit on our gear in order to get hit cap, and in many cases if you have already raided as Ret up until Phase3 the possibilities of you having a superior weapon like Sulfuras or Bonereaver's Edge are high, which means you will have to throw that aside in order to use a worse one.
You will still be able to deal decent damage as a Nightfall AP Ret, but when it comes to logs you will stand no chance to other non-Nightfall Ret Paladins.
Hitcap will always be the most important stat for a Nightfall user since a missed attack is a missed opportunity to proc the buff. Secondary it will depend on if you are playing Spellpower Hybrid or AP.
As a Nightfall user you will only be using Nightfall.
The only goal is to have the highest potential uptime, and in order to do this we will completely neglect our personal DPS.
You should seal twist SotC with SoR, and whenever your Judgement is off cooldown you should apply SoC and then JoC during one of your swingtimers, and then swap back to SoR again before you attack. This can be done every 3rd attack, and for this attack you are not doing to sealtwist Sotc/SoR. If you think it's too hard to do this consistently you can just keep SoC on for the current attack and swap back after.
Because of the high mana cost of constant seal twisting we will be using Rank1 of all the seals for the entire fight, if your mana allows it you can use max rank of SoR for a little bit more damage. We will also skip using Consecration since it's very mana expensive and would stop you from seal twisting the whole fight.
AP Nightfall Ret follow a simple rotation with SoC, JoC on cooldown and keep consecration activated. The hardest part of playing AP is to manage your mana. Because you won't itemize for intellect your mana pool will be very low and thus making is almost impossible to keep up max rank consecration while at the same time using max rank SoC during the fight. Most of the time you also want to use HoW in the execute phase which is quite mana intensive.
Start of the fight with judging Seal of the Crusader, activate SoC and start praying for crits. Whenever you have Vengeance up you should use max rank consecration, and during vengeance downtime either downrank it or don't use it at all if you think you won't be able to keep it for the remainder of the fight. Then just JoC on cooldown and finish with HoW in the execute phase.
JotC->SoC->Consecration->JoC->Sapper charge->Continue using JoC and Cons->HoW below 20%
This is a modified Ret spec only for SoR Hybrids with Nightfall that gets Unyielding Faith in order to reduce the risk of getting feared or CCd which would cause a loss in uptime. We also pick up imp. Ret aura in order to support the raid better in certain raid encounters and trash.
Standard Ret spec 11/8/32.
Paladins thrive on comsumables, the good (or bad, depending on your motivation to farm) thing about Paladins is that all stats and buffs benefits us in some way. Because of this we can really stack up on all consumables if we want to min-max to the fullest.
Here's a list of all the consumables you need and some comments on each. Yes, the list is very long, but that's the life of a Ret Paladin. Consumables are very important and if you want to be able to do the most damage possible you are going to need most of the stuff on this list for every raid.
Flask of Supreme Power - Powerful consumable that give a huge SP boost, for serious Spelladins this is a must as it will give you the biggest damage increase of all consumables.
Greater Arcane Elixir - Basic spellpower consumable that stack with flask. If you die a lot or during progression you can use the lesser version Arcane Elixir since its much cheaper.
Elixir of the Mongoose - Gives a 3%+ crit, defenitly a must have since our base crit is low.
JUJU Power - STR, slightly better then elixir of giants and fairly easy to farm from furbolgs in winterspring.
JUJU Might - AP, annoying to farm and usually quite expensive, also only last for 10min. Use Winterfall Firewater instead unless tryharding.
JUJU Flurry - An extra attack speed buff for 20 sec, the trick with these is that you can only use one on yourself, but other players can use them on you as well, try to get some friends to use them on you after your own duration runs out if you are tryharding.
R.O.I.D.S - A nice extra STR buff from the blasted lands repeatable quests. You can only have one though since it's unique.
Ground Scorpok Assay - If you raid longer then 1 hour your R.O.I.D.S will run out and since you can only have one of those you should have this one as a secondary.
Goblin Sapper Charge - A very nice damage boost on multi target fights that can provide an edge compared to other players who don't use it.
Iron Counterweight - You'll need to enchant every MCP with one of these, counts as a weapon ENCHANT so it stacks with oils etc.
Oil of Immolation - Provides a small AOE damage in fights, dont share CD with other pots so can be used freely,. but it will reset your swing timer, so be careful when you use it.
Shadow Oil/Frost Oil/Elemental Sharpening Stone - Ideally you'll want Shadow oil, but with the current "bugged"? proc rate Frost Oil is acually better most of the time. For you non-mcp weapons, use sharpening stone.
Dragonbreath Chili- DBC is a semi-low proc rate frontal cone fire AOE that scales 100% with SP making it quite good for fights with multiple targets stacked. However it's only a 10min duration and quite expansive reagents, so use how your wallet allows it.
Smoked Desert Dumplings / Grilled Squid - STR or Agility food buff, small but not insignificant DPS increase.
Elixir of Shadow Power - Prodivdes a small damage boost to Shadow oil procs but is quite expensive, only use together with shadow oil and if tryharding
Elixir of Greater Fire Power - Provides a small damage boost to DBC but also quite expensive, only use together with DBC if tryharding.
Major Mana Potion - Mana potions are needed for most bossfights in order to be able to sustain max rank consecration and seal for the whole fight. 1x per boss + a few for trash.
Dark Rune/Demonic Rune - Works as an extra mana potion if you need it for longer fights or can't use mana potion because of other pot usage.
Free Action Potion - Certian bosses and trash does stun/root effects which needs to be negated in order to DPS properly, bring a few FAPs for every raid.
Restorative Potion - Certain bosses have debuffs that hinders your DPS if not removed, bring resto pots to deal with this because waiting to get dispelled is not a safe solution.
Greater Fire Protection Potion / Greater Arcane Protection Potion / Greater Nature Protection Potion / Greater Shadow Protection Potion - Certain bosses have huge elemental damage and in order to protect yourself and minimize the risk of dying use protection potions. Dieing and losing all consumables and world buffs SUCKS, dont be cheap!
Elixir of Demon Slaying - There aren't a lot of Demon bosses, but for the ones that exist these will provide an extra damage increase.
Blizzard has responded to concerns that the Nightfall proc in Classic WoW, which can apply a debuff increasing the spell damage taken by the target by 15%, was not working as intended. The proc is behaving as expected and they detailed advanced mechanics of the proc.
Greetings!We’ve spent a significant amount of time digging into the claims in this thread and at this time we can conclude that Nightfall is in fact behaving as expected.To respond to specific claims or theories in this thread, here’s a very quick outline of what we found:
- Nightfall can and does proc from glancing blows.
- Nightfall can and does proc from white hits or yellow hits.
- Nightfall is refreshed if the same player procs it twice within the 5-sec duration, but it is removed & re-applied if it is procced by a second player during the first player’s Nightfall effect.
- Nightfall can be applied from front & behind.
- If there are two players with Nightfall, it has approximately double the uptime as when only one is present. (A little less than, simply due to it being more frequent for player B to overwrite player A when both are attacking, than player A overwriting themselves when they are attacking alone.)
- The Nightfall proc effect is considered physical and cannot be resisted. No resists are even being attempted in the combat rolls.
- Over dozens of 5-minute “target dummy” tests against level 63 Boss mobs, we found that the effect had a roughly 8-13% total proc rate, which is well within expectations for a 3.5 speed weapon with a PPM of 2 (~11.6% raw proc-per-hit).
- Even in our higher percentage data sets (where we observed proc rates of 13% or more over 5 minutes) we at times went as much as a full minute between procs.
It’s important to understand there is no “bad luck protection” or other normalization for procs in Original WoW or WoW Classic. Its quite possible (and common) to go extended periods of time with no procs, or to have multiple back-to-back procs. You are especially susceptible to not seeing consistent procs when bosses die very quickly, or if there is a lot of movement or other mechanics that prevent constant uptime on bosses (The Chromaggus run-in, run-out “dance” is a good example of this).I’m going to go ahead and close this thread now as well, since we’ve determined that this item is working as expected. We very much appreciate the observations and analysis that everyone has provided for this.Thank you!
We recently completed testing Naxxramas on the PTR. A big thank you goes out to everyone who helped us find bugs or exploits we could fix before release. We often get questions about how we decide what counts as a bug, and what’s worth changing, so I thought you might enjoy a deep dive into our investigation of Sapphiron’s Frost Aura.
TLDR for anyone who only wants to know the conclusion: We’re changing the spell to tick every 2 seconds consistently.
When Sapphiron is engaged, the entire raid is affected by a Frost Aura which reads: “Deals Frost Damage every second”, but many players reported that it should be every 2 seconds. Our first thought was, “that was the Wrath of the Lich King version,” but we know that in a game as complicated as WoW, there can be surprising and unexpected interactions, and a lot has changed over the last 15 years. When a current behavior doesn’t match players’ or developers’ memories, it always makes us a little suspicious. Sometimes it turns out our memories are wrong, but we’ve also seen it lead to the uncovering of an unexpected interaction, so, it’s usually worth a look, and that was certainly the case here.
We looked at many old videos, and though some were from the wrong expansion, we were able to find videos that showed the original fight. The videos actually had evidence of both tick rates within the same fight. The frost aura seemed to mostly tick every 2 seconds, but occasionally tick once per second for a bit, before returning to ticking every 2 seconds. We also checked in our reference server, and the behavior was the same as we saw in the videos: mostly 2 second ticks, but occasionally a brief streak of 1 second ticks, before returning to 2 second ticks.
Perhaps the most useful clue was this post from WoW game designer Daelo in 2009, in which he describes fixing Sapphiron’s Frost Aura so that it does “the damage that was seen previous to the 3.0.8 patch”:
“We just hotfixed Sapphiron’s Frost Aura so it should do the damage that was seen previous to the 3.0.8 patch regardless of the size of the raid or your server’s performance. This should be 1200 every 2 seconds in Normal, and 1600 every 2 seconds in Heroic. You’ll notice that the Frost Aura debuff you have no longer has a duration that refreshes. The tooltip also incorrectly lists the damage as occurring every second. The tooltip error will be fixed the next time we make a client patch available.”
This certainly suggests that it was doing damage every 2 seconds prior to the 3.0.8 patch, but this was a hotfix to the Wrath of the Lich King version of Naxxramas. We’ve already found other differences between the original and Wrath of the Lich King versions of Naxxramas, so while this post was helpful, it wasn’t enough to satisfy us on its own. It contained an important clue about the debuff duration refreshing, which led us to suspect the DoT refresh might be clipping the damage tick. In WoW Classic, when you refresh a DoT, it resets the timer on the periodic damage, and can cause you to miss ticks, and since the Frost Aura has a 5 second duration that gets reset throughout the fight. It was a good bet that the damage timer was getting reset then too. Of course, we already reproduced that behavior in WoW Classic, so that still didn’t explain the discrepancy between the two.
At that point, we dug further into the game code and found the difference in the way Sapphiron re-applies the Aura. In both reference and WoW Classic, the aura re-application was done as part of an Action Trigger which fires every 2 seconds. However, in the original code, action triggers share a timer with periodic spell ticks, and action triggers were always processed first. In modern code, they run on independent timers, so a long-running action script won’t delay a spell tick.
This meant that when Sapphiron re-applied the Frost Aura in reference, it was guaranteed to clip the damage tick that was about to happen, leading to every other tick getting skipped. In modern code, the damage tick and the reapplication are both scheduled to occur at the same time, but are controlled by two separate timers, so either one might happen first. It just so happens that in this encounter, the reapplication generally happens after the DoT tick on the same second, so that players got the full damage on every tick, instead of every other tick.
But this mystery isn’t solved yet. What about those occasional one second ticks we saw in the original videos and in the reference server. They were rare, but if the reference code is guaranteed to do the refresh before the damage tick, how were they ever ticking at once a second? It turns out that the Frost Aura application didn’t always succeed, and if it failed, the existing DoT happily ticked away doing damage once per second until the next refresh attempt 2 seconds later, like this:
Time (seconds) Event Damage
0 Aura #1 Applied 0
1 Aura #1 ticks 600
2 Aura #2 Applied (clips Aura #1) 0
3 Aura #2 ticks 600
4 Aura #3 fails (Aura #2 ticks) 600
5 Aura #2 ticks 600
6 Aura #4 Applied (clips Aura #2) 0
7 Aura #4 ticks 600
Since Sapphiron is 3 levels higher than the player, the spell can only miss 1% of the time, but that’s what explained the occasionally 1 second ticks we saw in the videos, and with our reference.
We also reached out to the original designer, who still works at Blizzard, on a different game team. After we described our findings, he agreed that the intended behavior was for the damage to be every second, and the fact that the reapplication of the aura was clipping a tick of the DoT was a bug that wasn’t noticed or fixed until Wrath of the Lich King.
So where do we go from here? We often must carefully consider a conflict between original intent and original behavior. There’s no one right answer in all cases, but for this case, the original behavior is the correct decision, and we plan to fix this in much the same way Daelo did in Wrath of the Lich King. In modern code, we have a way to reliably apply an aura that deals damage every 2 seconds as long as the boss is alive, and we’ll re-write this ability to use that method, just as Daelo did in Wrath of the Lich King.
While the behavior that led to it originally occurring every 2 seconds instead of every 1 second was a bug, it was consistent enough as to be indistinguishable from a text bug in the Aura description. Choosing to go with the original intent would result in almost twice as much damage as players experienced in 2006, so in the end that makes this decision pretty clear.
I hope you enjoyed that trip through our development process. See you in Azeroth!
@Theloras Sorry to tag you this early but… tag revenge is sweet huehuehue.
a guildmember of mine figured out how to filter warcraft logs for Nightfall debuff and showing the combined total spell damage dealt during the Nightfall window.
Since people don’t seem to believe us when we tell them NF is currently not really worth it, I mathed it out:
Assuming the logs shows the damage dealt TO the target WHILST the target has the Nightfall debuff and not just spell damage dished out to all targets during the nightfall window, which would make multimob boss fights largely inaccurate then:
Im showing how i did the math for the first boss, then wont for the remaining to save text space xD
Razorgore combined Nightfall DPS:
32.6 + 30.5 + 26 + 23.2 + 23.2 + 19.6 + 18 + 17.1 + 16.2 + 12.4 + 10.6 + 6.7 + 6 + 2 + 2 + 1.7 + + 1.2 + 1.1 + 1.1 + 0.6 + 0.6 + 0.3 + 0.1 * 0.15 = 37.92 Total Added DPS
(Values below 10dps only added 3-4 total DPS)
Vaelastrasz combined Nightfall DPS: 121.62
Broodlord Lashlayer combined Nightfall DPS: 125.08
Firemaw combined Nightfall DPS: 4.62
Ebenroc combined Nightfall DPS: 82.51
Flamegor combined Nightfall DPS: 68.49
Chromaggus combined Nightfall DPS: 39.39
Nefarian combined Nightfall DPS: 85.11
If we calculate the average overall dps increase from every boss then nightfall adds on average: 70.59 DPS per boss fight.
Mind you this is mathed out with 2 Nightfall wielders.
If there is only 1 person swinging NF, then the uptime will be way less, maybe even half of this simply because on certain fights, Nightfall wont proc at all.
(Yes I did it the hard way, I unintentionally but conveniently overlooked the “total” dps at the very bottom of every boss fight xD)
I figured out how to do the spell vulnerability thing with WCL
does that mean that off of this onyxia log
I can add up the dps of my casters for what NF provided them?
or is it you take the active % * dps while active and add it up?
2 LikesSours: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/nightfall-debuff-is-way-lower-than-2ppm-stated-across-the-board-from-classic-wowhead/445831?page=4
Wow nightfall classic
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